The two of them chatted for a while longer, and Hayao Miyazaki grew more and more enthusiastic as they spoke.
At this moment, although he was over fifty and his hair was completely white, he acted just like a child.
Like an indefatigable student striving for progress, he was full of curiosity about everything.
Aoki Haruhi patiently answered his technical questions regarding games.
Time flew by.
In the blink of an eye, over two hours had passed.
It was only then that Aoki Haruhi remembered the purpose for which Toshio Suzuki had entrusted him to come here.
Senior Miyazaki really isn't honest with himself at all.
After the argument with his son, although his first instinct was to disagree with Goro's views, he probably thought about it seriously himself afterward.
So, in the spirit of seeking the truth, he was still asking indirect questions, wanting to understand exactly what kind of impact computers or future 3D tools could have on the animation industry.
And how these things are actually used, and how the effects are created.
He clearly cared deeply about the future Goro spoke of, and while he might not immediately agree with Goro, Hayao Miyazaki at least wanted to know to what extent current technology could go... "Um, Senior Miyazaki, actually, I've already heard about what happened between you and Goro," Aoki Haruhi spoke up proactively.
"Eh?"
Hayao Miyazaki froze for a moment, then sat there silently, pulling a cigarette from his pocket and lighting it.
"So you've heard."
Hayao Miyazaki blinked his eyes. "That fellow Suzuki really is a blabbermouth."
"Suzuki-san is actually concerned about you both, but he was worried that neither you nor Goro would listen to his advice, mainly because you're too familiar with each other," Aoki Haruhi said.
"So you also think I'm an old fossil who's set in his ways, right?" Hayao Miyazaki said with his arms crossed, looking a bit angry.
"Not at all."
"Quite the opposite," Aoki Haruhi said. "I actually agree with your perspective very much."
"Eh?" Hayao Miyazaki looked up in confusion.
Was this young man saying this just to save face, or did he truly think so?
Logically, Goro's perspective aligned more with Pokeni's technology and production methods, whereas his own hand-drawn philosophy, Hayao Miyazaki's, seemed somewhat outdated and out of touch.
There was no reason for Aoki Haruhi to take his side.
"Tools are constantly changing, but some things never change."
Aoki Haruhi said with a smile, "For example, the light we were discussing just now, and the things we want to express."
"Look at this," Aoki Haruhi began to demonstrate.
He first placed a cigarette in his mouth, not lighting it, but lightly holding it between his lips, just like Hayao Miyazaki was doing now.
It made Hayao Miyazaki laugh.
"What does this mean?"
"Guess what kind of personality I have?" Aoki Haruhi asked.
"I guess you're imitating me," Hayao Miyazaki laughed heartily.
"Close enough; at least someone with delicate thoughts and a flexible mind."
After Aoki Haruhi finished speaking, he moved the cigarette to his back teeth and bit down hard on it.
"And now?"
Aoki Haruhi asked with a bared-teeth grimace.
Hayao Miyazaki laughed very happily, but Aoki Haruhi was performing very seriously and diligently.
He looked closely, contemplating. "Probably a fellow with quite a short temper."
"Right, a tough guy," Aoki Haruhi said. "Probably a Yakuza boss, the particularly violent kind. If I took off my shirt and carried a baseball bat, I'd look even more like it."
The two of them laughed heartily, very happy.
"And this."
Aoki Haruhi thought of something else, then stood up and ran outside to the stairs leading to the second floor.
Hayao Miyazaki followed him out, wanting to see what he was up to.
Aoki Haruhi first climbed the stairs and then walked down at a leisurely pace.
"What kind of personality is this?"
"I can't really tell," Hayao Miyazaki shook his head. "The performance is too crude."
"Then how about this?"
Aoki Haruhi bounded down several steps at a time, almost running all the way from the top.
"In a hurry, at least a person with an impatient temper."
"What else?" Aoki Haruhi asked.
"A vigorous and energetic personality, probably quite young; an old man couldn't do that," Hayao Miyazaki said with a smile.
However, he was also imagining in his mind what kind of impact an elderly person walking down the stairs like that would have on the audience.
At the very least, a stubborn, unyielding old lady, right?
Hearing the commotion outside, Toshio Suzuki walked out curiously, wanting to see what the two of them were doing.
He stood at the top of the stairs, looking down at the two of them, and couldn't help but laugh.
How did a conversation turn into exercise?
Aoki Haruhi climbed the stairs and then demonstrated the manner of going up and down.
Moreover, viewed from different angles, the resulting changes were also different.
"See, aren't these things constant?" Aoki Haruhi said as he came down the stairs and stood before Hayao Miyazaki.
"Whether it's 2D animation or 3D animation, the subjects we want to interpret—what their personalities are like, what kind of souls they have—these are the most crucial things.
It's not just surface-level."
"Hmm, a very good explanation of character," Toshio Suzuki laughed from the stairs.
"Ah, Suzuki-san, so you were here," Aoki Haruhi said with a smile.
"Yes, seeing you two having such a good time, I suddenly got curious," Toshio Suzuki said. "It's quite inspiring."
"Then why don't you come down and sit with us for a while?" Aoki Haruhi invited.
Sigh.
Toshio Suzuki sighed; since he had revealed himself, there was no way he could ignore them now.
He had no choice but to walk down the stairs and stand with the two of them.
They didn't return to the meeting room; the three of them just stood there and began to discuss.
"Hmm..." Hayao Miyazaki crossed his arms, thinking, "So, whether it's games or animation, they're both mediums. Some things never change, and what we really want is to dig out those unchanging things?"
"You can also dig out things that change."
Aoki Haruhi smiled, "But none of that has anything to do with 2D, 3D, hand-drawn, or computer-drawn; they're just tools we use for expression.
The key is whether they're suitable and easy to use.
If you feel that hand-drawing is the most suitable and convenient, then hand-draw it.
If we believe that with computer development and technological progress, there are more handy tools to express ourselves, then those are better for us."
Toshio Suzuki nodded, smiling without a word, silently watching Miyazaki beside him.
The latter crossed his arms and fell into deep thought.
"Quite an interesting viewpoint," Hayao Miyazaki said. "I've learned a lot, Haruhi-kun; thank you very much."
"No, no," Aoki Haruhi smiled, "these are all things you taught me, Senior Miyazaki."
"Eh?" Hayao Miyazaki was a bit puzzled. "How did I teach you?"
"You told me through your animation."
Aoki Haruhi said with a smile.
"Didn't you say before that animation and games are both mediums for expression, manifestations of thought? Animation should have a wide entrance so more people can understand it, enter easily, and appreciate the scenery within.
But the exit must be high; it must have depth and height, and it must be able to express the Author's thoughts and ideals.
These are all things you taught me."
"Ah... is that so?"
Hayao Miyazaki froze for a moment, then scratched his head sheepishly and laughed.
It seemed those really were words he had once said.
"Good tools are meant to liberate our hands, giving us more time and energy to think and do what we want to do.
For example, in the future, when artificial intelligence and game technology develop to a sufficiently powerful stage, it will be possible to realize what you said before, Senior Miyazaki—characters becoming real and acting according to their own will.
Then we'll actually be playing the role of God more.
Creating worlds and building a beautiful place for these characters.
We can focus on thinking about the universe, thinking about the changes in humanity, and thinking about more and more difficult propositions.
And games and animation will all become tools for our expression.
Nothing more."
Ah~ Hayao Miyazaki smacked his lips, wanting to say something, but unable to find the words.
He was deeply shaken in his heart.
This child, Aoki Haruhi, was simply too brilliant.
While he seemed to be agreeing with him, he was subtly using his actions to articulate Goro's ideas.
At this moment, Hayao Miyazaki's deeply rooted hand-drawn philosophy seemed to waver a bit.
"If tools really keep improving and can do better than what we do now, I'm actually willing to try."
...The three of them returned to the meeting room, and Toshio Suzuki poured a cup of tea for each of them.
In such an afternoon, chatting while sipping tea was truly blissful.
At this moment, the 'business partner' relationship didn't seem to exist between them; having shed their social identities, they were more like a group of old friends, good friends sitting together enjoying a leisurely time.
At the same time, they were talking about topics that interested them.
Like animation, like games, and the connection between the two.
And like their production tools, and what kind of changes would happen to animation in the future.
"According to my understanding, a 3D animation market will definitely emerge in the future," Aoki Haruhi said. "In fact, this has already happened."
"Eh?" Hayao Miyazaki looked at him in some confusion.
"Last year, didn't Pixar produce a 3D animated film called 'toy story'?"
Aoki Haruhi said, "This is a feature-length animation made entirely using computers. It's quite different from our traditional impression of animation; it actually leans more towards a realistic style."
The film broke animation records with a box office of 192 million USD, becoming the 1995 US box office champion. Globally, it set a record of 360 million USD and even won director John Lasseter an Academy Special Achievement Award.
The film's massive success also led to another event: Pixar's owner, Steve Jobs, who was now worth 1 billion USD, was invited back by the nearly bankrupt Apple company, pleading with this founding veteran to rebuild the empire.
At the mention of 'toy story', Hayao Miyazaki immediately recalled it.
"Yes, I've seen that one. Its performance was actually quite shocking."
Hayao Miyazaki took a deep breath and said, "However, I haven't figured out how to combine it with our animation style."
"There's no need," Aoki Haruhi smiled. "It depends on whether the tool is suitable and if it feels right in your hand."
"Hmm, true."
"But computer drawing can actually produce excellent results within a 2D effect."
Aoki Haruhi said, "In fact, the 'Your Name' we produced, as well as the later CL and LL, were basically made using computer drawing methods."
At this, Hayao Miyazaki stopped speaking.
His eyes were shining brightly.
He had participated in CL and LL, but mostly in determining the game's art style and character designs. After finishing those, he hadn't interfered with the game content further.
He hadn't expected that besides the content he provided, Pokeni had later created many things themselves.
He couldn't quite describe the feeling, but Hayao Miyazaki was shocked deep down... The group fell silent for a while, each sipping their tea.
Aoki Haruhi remembered something and asked:
"By the way, Senior Miyazaki, now that 'princess mononoke' is finished, do you have any plans for the next animation?"
"I don't have anything for the time being," Hayao Miyazaki said, scratching his head. "But Mr. Takahata has an animation in production that will be released next year."
Within Studio Ghibli, there are roughly two very formidable directors.
One is Hayao Miyazaki.
The other is Takahata Isao.
Master Takahata Isao is very skilled at telling ordinary stories from real life.
Finding warmth in the mundane, healing hearts, and conveying strength through the fates of small characters.
This actually requires a great deal of skill.
However, when such things are made, those who like them will love them. You can gain great momentum from a simple and ordinary life and from small characters, while also being moved by these simple matters and the relationships between people.
But it's like a glass of plain water, or perhaps a cup of tea; it requires the accumulation of years for you to savor it slowly.
The problem that brings is that for most people, it might be a bit too plain.
It can't become a commercial product.
Or even if it does, it's hard for the world to understand.
This was Aoki Haruhi's own view.
It's good, but those who can appreciate it need a settled heart, so it's not necessarily suitable for adaptation into a game.
The animation Mr. Takahata Isao is currently working on is titled 'My Neighbors the Yamadas'.
It tells the story of the Yamada family.
This traditional Japanese family leads an ordinary life: Mr. Yamada is an average office worker who appears to have patriarchal authority but feels sorrow over trivial matters;
Mrs. Yamada is a housewife with a thick Kansai accent;
The son, Noboru, is a middle school student with average grades just entering puberty, while the daughter, Nonoko, is an innocent kindergarten child. Then there's the children's grandmother—
She's old but often acts very cool, always speaking with sharp insight.
Families like this are everywhere under the sun and moon. There's familial love, middle-aged romance, as well as bickering and nagging. They fight and feel sad, then make up and feel happy. Autumn is bright but must pass; home is still the warmest place, and the children are all growing up.
It's actually a very ordinary and warm work, consistent with Mr. Takahata Isao's usual style, except... this animation doesn't seem very easy to adapt into a game.
"Well... we'll see when the time comes." Aoki Haruhi tactfully expressed that it wasn't quite suitable.
What he looked forward to more was Hayao Miyazaki's next work, 'spirited away'.
But since he didn't have any more ideas at the moment, he let it drop.
Lest he speak too much and interfere with the man... Takahata Isao's work couldn't be adapted into a game, but Aoki Haruhi had an even bolder idea.
"Senior Miyazaki, I have an idea," Aoki Haruhi spoke up.
"Hmm?"
Toshio Suzuki shifted beside him, leaning more towards Aoki Haruhi, showing deep interest in what he was about to say.
"I want Totoro to join Pokémon."
"Eh?! Totoro joining Pokémon?" Hayao Miyazaki and Toshio Suzuki were completely bewildered.
...
"Pokémon is a game about catching spirits. I want to collaborate with Ghibli and have the unique and cute magical creatures from the Totoro animation appear in the Pokémon game. If we do that, the audience and players will definitely be very happy."
Just thinking about it made Aoki Haruhi go 'wow'—being able to catch Totoro in Pokémon?!
What a magical and wonderful thing that would be.
Totoro is Ghibli's mascot; even the Studio Ghibli logo uses Totoro's face.
When the time comes, it will surely be a delight for fans of both and cause a worldwide sensation.
Aoki Haruhi explained for a long while, and the two elderly men roughly understood.
The proposal was quite interesting. For both parties, it would deepen their cooperation and allow them to make money together.
"How would the merchandise split work?" Toshio Suzuki asked with a frown.
"It depends on which channel the money is made from," Aoki Haruhi said.
"Items sold through Ghibli's partner channels will definitely follow the contracts you've signed with them. If they go through our channels, then the merchandise sold will be split between Pokeni and Ghibli."
Animated film companies are actually different from other parts of the film and television industry; they don't rely solely on box office revenue to make money.
In fact, the real bulk of the profit lies in merchandise and discs.
Take Totoro for example; Ghibli's Totoro merchandise creates nearly ten billion yen in extra revenue for the studio every year.
If this is driven well, the sales of merchandise will be even better in the future.
Although Old Man Miyazaki always felt that Disney's animations lacked depth, Ghibli itself very much hoped to become a second Disney.
Hayao Miyazaki could treat money like dirt and focus solely on making the animations he wanted to make.
But Toshio Suzuki had to manage the money, support the studio members, and generate revenue, so he was very practical.
In fact, one wouldn't even need to get down to the retail level; sales volume could be calculated when wholesaling to distributors.
Unless Pokeni decided to do direct sales in the future, like opening an online mall, in which case every transaction would need to be detailed... Aoki Haruhi's proposal was actually a good thing for both Pokeni and Ghibli.
"Yes, I think it's feasible," Toshio Suzuki said.
The two sides quickly reached a preliminary intent, but the specific details would have to be decided in a formal meeting later.
However, Aoki Haruhi was extremely happy to have received the promise from Toshio Suzuki and Hayao Miyazaki.
When leaving Ghibli, Aoki Haruhi felt like he was walking on air... During dinner that evening.
Hearing Aoki Haruhi talk about the Miyazaki father and son, Nao Tsuda was beaming.
"Heh, they really are an interesting pair. Why do I always feel like you'd be very happy if you went to Studio Ghibli too?"
"Haha," Aoki Haruhi said with a laugh, "I'm very happy now. I don't want to go to Studio Ghibli; they argue all the time—who could possibly mediate that? After a while, even I wouldn't be able to stand it."
Aoki Haruhi frowned slightly, a meaningful smile playing at the corners of his mouth. "Thinking about it now, I really admire Mr. Suzuki. Besides the daily management of the company, he has to handle all sorts of interpersonal relationships. It's really not easy."
Nao Tsuda blinked her eyes while eating.
It was unclear what she was thinking about.
Aoki Haruhi just thought she was particularly cute.
Two seconds passed.
"Haruhi-kun," Nao Tsuda spoke up.
"Hmm?" Aoki Haruhi looked up at her in confusion.
"Thank you."
"Hmm?"
"Thank you for being a gentle and patient person," Nao Tsuda said with a smile.
"Why are you suddenly saying this?"
"Oh, nothing, just a sudden feeling."
"Then, my cute, smart, and beautiful Miss Tsuda," Aoki Haruhi said with a grin, "shall we make an even smarter, cuter, gentler, and more patient child?"
"Pfft... No way."
"Yes way!"
"In broad daylight... we haven't even finished eating."
"What's there to be afraid of? I want to have a good look at your body, Nao-chan."
"Pervert!"
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