As they continued exploring Kumogakure, their thoughts inevitably returned to their recent discussion with Ron at the dinner table.
Tsunade was the first to speak. "So if we can remove the chakra seed that restricts our chakra," she said thoughtfully, "does that mean we can become stronger? Strong enough to surpass the shadow level… to reach the strength of my grandfather, Uchiha Madara, or even you, Katsuyu Sage?"
Katsuyu responded calmly. "It is not that simple. If the chakra seed were removed from all ninjas, it would mean they would need to train for years before extracting their first chakra. By the time they succeeded, their baseline strength would already be at least jonin-level. This is very different from the current system, where even children with developing bodies can extract chakra and gain weak strength at the genin and chunin levels."
She continued, her voice steady. "Even with great talent, years of accumulation and effort are required to surpass shadow-level strength. Look at Mount Myoboku or Ryuchi Cave. There are countless frogs and snakes there, yet only a handful ever master Sage Mode and achieve extended lifespans and greater power. Among them, there are no new sages who have surpassed the shadow level so far. For now, only the White Snake Sage, the Great Toad Sage, and I have reached that realm, and that is largely due to our age and accumulation."
"For ninjas who have not mastered sage arts," Katsuyu added, "it is extremely difficult to surpass the shadow level within a single lifetime. Old age and death inevitably arrive first. Sage Mode slows this process, as natural energy supplements both the body and the spirit slowly, but even then, the path is not easy."
Kurama nodded in agreement. "Your grandfather and Madara Uchiha were born with extraordinary chakra," he said. "One with overwhelming Yang, the other with powerful Yin. Part of their chakra already surpassed the shadow level from the beginning. They were special."
At this point, Ron, who had been listening quietly, spoke up.
"You are absolutely right," he said. "For normal ninjas, by the time they reach their peak, even if they become shadow-level, their bodies are already exhausted. Years of chakra extraction and extreme exertion gradually consume their potential and damage the body itself. Even if we ignore the most important requirement, spiritual quality for breaking into the Super Shadow realm, the body alone becomes a limiting factor."
"Uchiha Madara's innate Yin Release gave him tremendous spiritual power, allowing his body to eventually follow and adapt. That is how he truly became a Super Shadow-level ninja. Senju Hashirama's Yang Release gave him overwhelming vitality and physical energy, allowing his body to reach that realm as well."
Ron's tone remained calm but firm. "Of course, their lives also played a role. They lived through the heart of the Warring States Period, experiencing chaos, death, and conflict on a scale most ninjas would never see, even across countless lifetimes. With their talents and the power they were born with, it was only natural that they reached the Super Shadow level."
Tsunade nodded slowly. "My grandmother once said something similar," she said. "She learned from Kurama that my grandfather was the reincarnation of someone named Ashura."
Ron nodded in response. "Yes. According to ancient records, the origins of modern ninjas trace back to the teachings of the Sage of Six Paths and his followers, especially his two sons, Indra and Ashura, who are believed to be the ancestors of the Uchiha and Senju clans."
He paused briefly before continuing. "But there is one thing you are mistaken about. Aside from these people, some people have surpassed the shadow level."
"The Otsutsuki clan prefers to plunder energy directly, consuming the fruit of the Divine Tree to forcibly elevate their chakra to Super Shadow levels or beyond. This strengthens both body and spirit through external means. Your grandfather and Madara were born with chakra so powerful that they eventually reached that realm naturally."
Ron's gaze sharpened slightly. "But we ninjas can also achieve this through our own efforts by constantly tempering body and mind, refining both spiritual and physical energy until the chakra of that level is formed. In my opinion, this path is superior, because it is strength built on a solid foundation, gained step by step."
"My father is one of them," Ron said quietly. "Most likely the only one in the current ninja world."
He then turned to Katsuyu. "You are right, Katsuyu Sage. This realm of power is truly new and extremely difficult to reach. The transformation is miraculous and immense. I have been studying my father's data closely, and the changes he has undergone are truly astonishing!"